Pat hosts a (friendly, but at times spirited) discussion between Catholic philosophers Dr. Brian Besong and Noah McKay on whether Catholics should be aspirational vegans.

Pat's Substack: https://journalofabsolutetruth.substack.com/

Noah's Substack: https://noahmckay1.substack.com/

0:00 Intro
0:50 Noah McKay’s conversion to Catholicism
5:33 Hell and the hardest obstacles to conversion
18:48 Marian doctrines and Catholicism
23:59 Catholicism and veganism
24:38 Noah’s case for “moderate veganism”
35:06 Brian’s natural-law response: Do animals have rights?
50:35 Should people who can go vegan go vegan?
52:47 Factory farming, cruelty, and the Fred thought experiment
58:38 What does the Catechism actually say about animals?
1:03:51 Why are puppies different from farm animals?
1:08:12 Does moral status track “snuggliness”?
1:13:25 The “Tesla Torturer” thought experiment
1:29:37 Is buying factory-farmed meat moral cooperation?
1:34:50 Are animals naturally “for” human beings?
1:41:52 The biblical case for aspirational veganism
1:43:53 Jesus, the Messianic Kingdom, and eating fish
1:51:32 Kids, nutrition, and the practical problems with veganism
1:55:03 Should Catholics at least eat less meat?
1:57:29 Humane and regenerative farming
2:01:42 What does it mean to cause animals to suffer “needlessly”?
2:07:49 Brian’s Moorean argument for eating meat
2:19:35 Noah responds to the Moorean argument
2:24:44 Meat eating, compassion, and moral sensitivity
2:28:52 Compassion, scrupulosity, and the Aristotelian mean
2:31:10 Final thoughts
2:31:10 Where to find Brian Besong and Noah McKay
2:33:14 Outro