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In this episode, Patrick Coffin sits down with author and publisher of Culture Wars magazine Dr. E. Michael Jones for a wide-ranging conversation on two of the most persistent flashpoints in post-conciliar Catholic life: the Society of St. Pius X and the Medjugorje phenomenon.

• Jones reviews the history of both phenomena: both born from a crisis of confidence in Rome, and both resistant to definitive magisterial resolution.

• The conversation traces the canonical and diplomatic history in detail, from the 1988 episcopal consecrations and John Paul II's motu proprio Ecclesia Dei through the subsequent decades of doctrinal talks, culminating in Benedict XVI's efforts — including the 2009 lifting of the excommunications — to bring the Society back into full communion. Jones and Coffin examine why those efforts stalled, and what that impasse reveals about the SSPX's actual theological posture.

• Central to the discussion is Jones's provocative thesis: that the Society, for all its liturgical traditionalism, functions in practice as a kind of high-church Protestant sect — Lutheran in its operating logic of private judgment and self-governing authority, while covering the operation with plumes of incense and the TLM.

Coffin and Jones probe whether this makes SSPX resistance to Rome closer in kind to Medjugorje's unresolved status than either movement's adherents would like to admit.

A provocative listen for anyone tracking the fault lines of authority in the modern Catholic Church.

Jones’ website: www.culturewars.com